Now when you think of the word "cartoon"...

[pichu]

Me and etecoon were having some mini argument in the chat that the word cartoon is different. Now this is what happen. He said that he was going to see a cartoon and I asked him what cartoon. He says Open season. I replied back saying that Open season isn't a cartoon, it's CGI animation. Then he contradicted me saying that both hand drawn and CGI are both classified as a cartoon. I said that it isn't, the word cartoon is meant to be hand drawn only. Well he had to leave to see this movie without finishing the argument and told me to start a thread and tell what the people of the NS think that the word cartoon is suppose to mean... now what do you think IS a cartoon?

[Falcon095]

For me Cartoon is hand-drawn only, i'd consider CGI as animation or i something like that.

[Don Ramón]

I voted

[Falcon095]

^ And it was for hand-drawn! Er.. i mean.. the voted is free and secret..

[El Duderino]

From Wikipedia:

"A cartoon (from the Italian "cartone" and German and Dutch word "karton", meaning strong, heavy paper or pasteboard) is a full-size drawing made on sturdy paper as a study or modello for a painting, stained glass, or tapestry. Cartoons were typically used in the production of frescoes, to accurately link the component parts of the composition when painted on damp plaster over a series of days (giornate). Such cartoons often have pinpricks along the outlines of the design; a bag of soot was then patted or "pounced" over the cartoon, held against the wall to leave black dots on the plaster ("pouncing"). Cartoons by painters, such as the Raphael Cartoons in London and examples by Leonardo da Vinci, are highly prized in their own right. Tapestry cartoons, usually coloured, were followed by eye by the weavers on the loom."

But of course those where simpler times and computer animation is a pretty new form of art and entertainment... still we need to differentiate between hand drawn and non hand drawn animation... was Toy Story such a big deal because it was just another cartoon ??? No, it was a big deal because it was the first fully computer animated movie... computer =/= human, cartoon =/= computer animation.

I´m not the definition police and don´t mind when people use the word cartoon for something computer animated... but we connect words and phrases with definite meanings for a reason and the more we widen the range for words of phrases the less precise our language becomes... and English is very imprecise compared to other languages already... it gets pretty annoying when people talk about "those guys... doing stuff" "you know what I´m saying".. "it was... like... you know"... and if we stop using words for their actual meaning then marklar will soon be marklar... and all marklar can say to marklar is marklar... marklar ???

[Kenzomatic]

Clearly "jimmy neutron boy genius" is a cartoon, would you call Avatar a cartoon it had alot of 3D. "Handy Manny" another show every parent would refer to in normal conversation as a cartoon. The point is that public perception makes defination. I have no clue what websters (dictionary) says but I can tell you that every 3D animator I know generally assumes that the mass public has no clue what 3D animation is (which is true). Also all the artistic techniques and principles are still used in 3D. So pretty much any term that apllies to 2D will be used for 3D. So as far as I'm concerened 3D can be a cartoon but I would not call "beowolf" a cartoon.

All cartoons will be some level of 3D soon, South Park is all done in 3D even Howls Moving Castle is almost all 3D outside the characters.

The line is blurred now between 3D and 2D so good luck finding the line if you think cartoon means 2D or hand drawn (does hand drawn textures count?). You need to also realise that eveyone here is in "the know" to some extent through video games. Other people do not know, so in conclusion whether its the definition or not it will be soon enough, or it will become a vintage word thats never used.

My vote is yes it is both.

[El Duderino]

^^ The public opinion is stupid and based on statistics... if the public opinion was that a cats tail is a leg would that mean a cat has five legs ??? No... calling something a certain thing does not make it that... Steamboat Willie and Toy Story are not the same thing... you can call them by the same name but they aren´t and the description is more then blurry...

Also if two hunters shoot at the same rabbit at the same time but one aims two feet to far to the left and the other aims two feet to far to the right then by statistics and public opinion the rabbit is dead... is the rabbit really dead ??? No...

[Saki]

Hand-drawn. CGI is....CGI. I cant explain

[Kenzomatic]

Every year about 10 words are added to the dictionary and not all of them are technical terms how exactly do you think they come to be?

Words have the meaning people give them and that will never change. The proffesors and dictionaries of the world can fight it all day but their definitions being correct, so people can understand the languauge a certain people are using, is what gives them credibility so they too have to adapt. If everyone in the US starts calling a dog a bear then how and why would you not make note of that in a dictionary as one of the possible definition.

Societies defines language not harford proffesors or scholars, they merly put it to paper. The only thing that stop public opinion is the opinion of people in that said feild. I would look to fine art as an example of where some very questionable "art" has become famous and proper, because of the people involved and not public opinion. My expeirence on the subject is that the people in the feild don't care if their product is called a cartoon. Hell most of them call them cartoons to denote the style.

FYI - Every major 3D app reffers to making cartoons somewhere in there literature. Usually reffering to a style of 3D and not exculsivly cell shadeing.

Look at the end of the day If the professionals use the term and the general public then you are just out in the cold.

[El Duderino]

"The general public" is just a phrase we use for everyone and no one at the same time... you can´t directly measure public opinion or say how many need to share an opinion to make it public... so saying its just public opinion and you can´t do anything about it is a weak argument... the question never was what the public opinion is... your opinion was asked... and if you willingly submit to what public opinion is then you are one of the blind masses that make stupid things happen and go ahead calling a Dog a Bear... so go back to beating your chest for communication if you like... thats what the public opinion though was best a few million years ago (5000 years for you lui ) but then intelligent people diversified language and brought civilization uppon humanity... and I seriously doubt any expert sitting on a PC doing lighting or modeling every said "I am drawing a cartoon right now."

[Kenzomatic]

The key word there in your agrument is drawing.

Dictionary

: a motion picture that is made from a series of drawings, computer graphics, or photographs of inanimate objects (as puppets) and that simulates movement by slight progressive changes in each frame
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/animated+cartoon

NOUN: A motion picture or television film consisting of a photographed series of drawings, objects, or computer graphics that simulates motion by recording very slight, continuous changes in the images, frame by frame.
http://www.bartleby.com/61/8/A0310800.html


Definition:
1. animated movie: a movie made using animation instead of live actors, especially a humorous film intended primarily for children
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861595200

4 - (animation) An animated piece of film which is often but not exclusively humourous.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cartoon

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Also carefully read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animated_cartoon

It must be writin by 5 different people at one point it say cartoons are only short hand drawn animation and then later it says stop-motion and computer animation are under the umbrella. It reminds me of the grand daddy long legs which is the name of a spider and the name of a species.

Also I will bet the phrase "I work on the cartoon Jimmy Netron" has been uttered many times. Wednesday I'll see alot of my "traditional animation" friends and get their two cents.

[B4L]

I agree with kenezy ..since he does work in the field and all. Of course I call everything cartoon .....wall*e, madagascar, animes, ect ....

[Brute]

For me it's hand drawn.

[amp316]

Anything hand drawn is a cartoon.

Anything not is Disney, Pixar, or Dreamworks.

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